Critics of TDU

[Bob Randall]

I just need to say it ya'll. The viciousness of the attacks on Ken Paff are unjust. The lies are as well. SOB and the GEB are not direct resuts of Paff and TDU. Certainly the GEB was supported and is to this day. However, finding the organization responsible for the GP is over the top. Honestly. I couldn't be any more irate with SOB for the appearnce at the RNC as well as for the lack of endoresement. Totally irresponsible. Clearly, some of the GEB members disagree with him as well. To me, this irresponsibility along with the acts of retaliation to our members should be enough to have him sent packing. I can't disagree with the disappoinment in TDU for not speaking out as well as I can't disagree with disappoinment toward any GEB member for the same. Clearly they are afraid of retaliation in some form. (That is our culture.) The role of TDU being a part of a coalition is one that I question. As I have stated previously it seems to me that TDU may be a victim of its own successes. Salaries are way down from the corrrupt level that we once knew. TDU is greatly responsible if not directly. There is a level of democracy now that TDU greatly advocated for. (Nobody wanted a government oversight. But,hey. I wasn't gonna knock on Tony Pro's door or any mafia member that pulled the strings of the GP.) It seems that the role of TDU has evolved with the progress that has been achieved. However, there are still multiple salaries collected that I wish TDU would point out an oppostion to. There have been other issues brought to attention here that I appreciate as well. Now, let me go back in time a bit. For those of us that are old enough to remember General President Carey...it is my humble opinion that Ron was the greatest GP that has served barring none. (Hoffa JR was a figure head for some really bad folks with only self interests. Rome, if you are listening? Hoffa Sr was even worse. There, I said it. You can't be into the mob as a Teamster and be worthy of being a Teamster. Back to Carey. The IBT fluffed up Carey in the same way that it fluffs up SOB and the current Teamsters. Carey's adminstration hired similar folks that publicized numbers that were skewed, publicized issues in a way that were out of context, etc. Remember the Magazine? I could go on. It's not the style that I prefer. However, that's the world that we live in. My point? It's simply not rational to attempt to hold TDU responsible for all of SOB's actions, inactions, decisions, etc. The level of malice displayed due to animus for SOB is just not something that Paff is worthy of. The dude has sacrificed way more than any of us likely would have.

[Watcher745]

[Nickjamesups]

[Bob Randall]

I don't have answers to your questions. Personally, I'd have no problem with John speakng anywhere at anytime.

[Gimliboston9]

[jm481]

The TDU Rank and File Bill of Rights - https://www.tdu.org/rank-and-file-bill-rights

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/teamstersforademocraticunion/mailings/1763/attachments/original/Proposed_Changes_to_TDU_Constitution_August_2021.pdf

[Gimliboston9]

It is accurate that it was removed after endorsing Oz.

[WTF891]

Looking at the things struck in this document might explain how they have transitioned to the TURD. They are full of shit.

[Bob Randall]

I find it to be interesting how I'm replied to with a certain level of anger that's directed personally by folks that I lean more toward being in agreement with than in opposition to. Although, my thoughts are absent the ire and vile. If I can be a bit critical here guys...I've learned,without a doubt, that whenever one wants an opinion to be "winning" one certainly only loses the moment it makes use of words that are personal such as "you", etc. Injecting name calling or labeling rather than speaking to issues that one is serious about immediately drives the other party away. Likely to never open up its mind again. I mean, that's 101 stuff. But, I do understand how angry, pesonal name calling feels much better. Good luck though.

[Bob Randall]

Watcher's didn't really warrant a reply. But, c'mon. Ron's PR department was effective. The magazine and other publications were very fluffy. I saw it and loved it though because I was such a supporter. But, all of this is off of my point. To blame another person or another party with such viciousness for hatred toward an entire administration is just simply not rational. That was my point that seemed to immedtely get lost. Yeeesh!

[Watcher745]

[DanaCos]

It was Levin that told a guy in Philly, "What else do you want from the Vote No. Your benefits got better than what was offered. We need to move on and vote yes".

[Nickjamesups]

[Bob Randall]

"Watcher" and a few others that seem to only be able to speak with name calling, anger, shortness of real issues, animosity, etc. Ya'll are intentionally deflecting from the point. Nobody, nobody deserves to be the target of such foulness spewed by some of you for the entire country/world to see. Not Paff. Not Obrien. Nobody. It does nothing to further your true points of interest. It speaks more to the writer as well. It seriously limits the effectiveness of this sight as well. I enjoy debate around issues and opinions. That ain't what takes place here. Gotta tell ya. I was an organizer for 32 years. This kind of crude, childish banter only gives off a foul impression for nonunion workers to see. Continuing to carry on with this manner of dialogue simply makes me feel not too good about myself. So, I'm gonna take a break for a while. MIght come back at some time. Might not. Until then...blow me.

[DanaCos]

All these people going against Ken Paff and Dave Levin have every right to do so. During the 2013 UPS contract Paff and Levin wrote multiple articles about the Philadelphia Vote No and it was far from what was really going on here. TDU has a tendency to stab people in the back. There were members in the Louisville UPS hub that were fighting Fred Zuckerman and TDU decided to make Fred the leading fighter against Hoffa after writing articles about him being a corrupt union leader. They took the movement by the reigns and educated us about the Maintenance of Benefits clause and agreed to write that out of the contract and have us paying for everything out of our pockets. They even removed the letter penned by their lawyer that drew out what needed to be done to reacquire our healthcare. This led me to disassociate myself from their organization. Then they go on to support the very man that was the lead negotiator in that contract, Sean O'Brien. I could tell story after story about Ken Paff's conduct towards his own members. It is true that he only wants ass kissers on the steering committee.

[25Medford]

I used to hate TDU until I got to me some of the guys. They came up to Boston and it was an instant labor connection. They are labor advocates and always welcome in Boston.

[Nickjamesups]

[Gimliboston9]

[DanaCos]

I used to hate TDU until I got to me some of the guys. They came up to Boston and it was an instant labor connection. They are labor advocates and always welcome in Boston.

What year was this? Tell us more about your hatred for the organization and why? You don't sound too principled. Follow the leader?

[Gimliboston9]

[DanaCos]

I agree. Most of us gave TDU cred for what they were doing then realized what they really stood for.

[25Medford]

Once you break br ad with them they are just labor advocates just like us. They are a great bunch. Pals forever. I love TDU

[AlJackson1962!]

Brother Bob Randall:

I agree that one can't hold TDU or Ken Paff responsible for O'Brien's mis-leadership. But TDU and Paff as national TDU organizer for most of TDU's existence, has a responsibility to address O'Brien's actions (or lack thereof). If there were no "Coalition" with O'Brien, there would have been prominent claims by TDU of these matters. I was a TDU member and elected delegate to the 1991 Teamster Convention when Carey was nominated. And there were actions by Carey as well that TDU would have otherwise addressed if not for the TDU support for Carey. And I agree with you that Carey was the greatest of Teamster general presidents. Had he been reelected for a full second term, I believe the entire US labor movement would be stronger as a result. And I agree with you that Hoffa, Sr. should be held accountable for allowing the infiltration of The Mob, notwithstanding his great achievements, the NMFA in particular. Carey was in office after trucking was deregulated, whereas Hoffa, Sr. had the advantage of a regulated industry that provided a somewhat level playing field for the rates set by the ICC. Whereas Carey held office, post-Reagan, and during a low point in Union density and power.

The non-endorsement of Kamala Harris is a travesty. The cozying up to Trump, Hawley, JD Vance and the RNC by O'Brien is a catastrophe. O'Brien is a Trumpster; he is a traitor. For TDU, which I first joined in 1977 not taking a stand is all of the above too.

- Dave Robbins, Local 251, retired.

[Nickjamesups]

Well said ,agree 100%.

[Gimme_Danger]

The TDU you joined has never been involved with electoral politics. Also, you objected to TDU endorsement of Carey in the '91 cycle. Seems like you oppose everything.

[AlJackson1962!]

Gimme-Danger: Were your comments directed at me? If so, please clarify regarding "electoral politics" and what politics you're referring to, and I voted to nominate Carey as a 1991 IBT Delegate.

[25Medford]